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How to deal with religious/legalistic Christians

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3:59 pm
March 22, 2010


SaraMcD

Moderator

posts 169

Yes Suzie, thanks for your research into this! I'm so glad to see you on the forum sweet friend! It really helps to look up the words and I love 3# also!

#3 is really what I meant by vocation here: Doing the thing that God calls us to do. Here is another quote, this one from Leanne Payne:

 Vocation: The obedience that comes out of listening to God puts us securely in our truest vocation. It is a radical place to be—a place of freedom from the words of the world, the flesh and the devil. No longer slaves to sin, but alive to God's voice, we are brought into that spacious place of genuine creativity. We learn to collaborate with what we hear the Lord command, and He, in turn, loves His world through us.

I love this because it also revolves around listening to God first and foremost. When we are where He puts us, and consumed with listening to Him, then the words of the world the flesh and the devil don't impact us as much, we have no time to listen to them! I love that He then loves the world through us.

My final quote (for now!) on vocation is this from Frederick Buechner:

The place God calls you to is the place where your deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet.

These are all things that the Lord has used to teach me and so I'm sharing them here. Although it seems to be a side trip from our discussion about legalistic Christians, its only when we truly understand that its only God we need to listen to and gain comfort from, its only God we need to please, its only Him we need to obey and all else will fall into place from that, that we can be free from the criticisms of others and let Him simply love and forgive through us. I believe that legalistic Christians are deeply hungry! We have deep gladness to share that no legalism can quench because Christ has set us free from the Law and now lives in union with our spirits. He is deep gladness within me and the world is deeply hungry for Him even if they don't recognize it!

Selah!


Keeping the Vision!

9:49 pm
March 22, 2010


Georgia

Member

posts 116

Thank you, Suzie and Sara, for setting me straight on the word "vocation."  It makes a lot more sense now.

And thank you, Belinda-Marie, for the reminder that God is not like Biff knocking on McFly's head.  (I loved those movies!)  That is so amazing that God would be beginning to speak to you about stepping down.  Like maybe he brought you to this point so this could happen….????  And now His purposes are complete?  Wow!  And I love you being the Zippo lighter fluid!  I think "Zippo" would be a good nickname for you!! Laugh So it's like He was accomplishing His purposes in you and the others all at the same time.  I guess that leads us to His soverignity!!

Still amazed,

Georgia

PS I sort of like the math, because then I can't accidentally post before I'm ready!

9:18 am
March 23, 2010


SaraMcD

Moderator

posts 169

I just wanted to let you all know that the journal Jaque mentioned is up now under "Noteworthy Journals". Thanks Susan!Laugh

Keeping the Vision!

11:02 am
March 23, 2010


Jaque

Member

posts 119

Excellent input Suzie.  Thanks!


I like the word "calling" here, for to Him we are called.  To keep our eyes always on Him, to turn to Him for every answer, to keep His will and instructions constantly in mind, to make seeking Him our #1 priority and activity, and to love the Lord our God with every ounce of attention, focus and passion we have to give.  To learn HIs ways and allow Him to instruct our minds to think well and holy. This is our divine mission (calling) in life.


If we were to take our vocation seriously His truth would shake all religious legalism out of our brains, bones and sinews~don't you think?



Living 'loved' by keeping myself in His love… Jude 21

9:04 pm
March 23, 2010


Georgia

Member

posts 116

Oh, I just got it – our calling (vocation) is to listen to His voice!!

(Delayed reactionConfused)

If we do that one thing, it will lead us to the next step, whatever that is, at whatever time we are in.

There's no legalism in that – it's all relationship!! Smile

10:10 am
March 24, 2010


SaraMcD

Moderator

posts 169

Exactly, Georgia, exactly! Its a living relationship, not based on man-made doctrines.

Doctrines are sets of principles, systems and creeds. The Truth is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. By abiding in Christ I discern the truth of God in the passing moments. (Oswald Chambers)

When we consider how Jesus lived and taught His disciples, and the 'newness' of the path He was showing them, why do we now think we can have theology encapsulated into various doctrines? With our doctrines we have moved the living words and set them in stone 'on pages' so that they have become fossilized but this is meant to be lived and breathed as we follow Jesus wherever we find Him.

Because we do know and recognise Him, we are His sheep and we hear His voice and do not follow the voice of a stranger. His Spirit within us lets us know what is truth and what isn't. We can tell what is truth and what isn't because we are looking for Jesus in all things, we have learned to hear and recognise Him and if He isn't there, it isn't truth. He once told me that I am not to judge the path I am merely to look to see if he is on it and if He is, to follow Him wherever He leads.

We are journeying into God's heart.Smile

Keeping the Vision!

2:24 pm
March 24, 2010


Jaque

Member

posts 119

Okay!!!  I just read this and think that todays journal fits.  (Our class is on the Holy and Self Existent lesson.)


From Exodus 26:33, Leviticus 16:2      


 And you shall hang the veil from the clasps and bring the ark of the Testimony into place within the veil; and the veil shall separate for you the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place. Ex 26:33 (AMP)


 The Lord said to Moses, Tell Aaron your brother he must not come at all times into the Holy of Holies within the veil before the mercy seat upon the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud on the mercy seat. Lev 16:2 (AMP)

Jaque, Aaron’s two sons presumed on Me and died because they offered unholy incense. 


Presume: To venture out without positive permission.  Arrogant.  To act from confident or arrogant opinions.


Arrogant: Giving one self an undue degree of importance.  Haughty, conceited.


Presumption: Supposition of the truth or real existence of something without direct or positive proof of the fact, but grounded on circumstantial or probable evidence which entitle it to belief.


Lord, when the law was a written "code" outside me,  I, like Hophni and Phinias presumed much upon you by offering strange incense—by trying to do enough good works to please you.  I was haughty and conceited, so much that I thought I "should be able to" please you with my efforts.  When I saw you were unappeasable I resented you that much more. You were as hard a stone to me.  You were a far away God and you showed yourself "contrary" to me.  Yes, I knew you as an angry and vengeful God and often dismissed you.


Yes dear one.  And this is how the law affects unbelievers.  Outside of you it is the language of wrath (to the children of wrath Eph. 3), which you are no longer.  But the law inside the hearts of My children becomes a language of unconditional love. Outside it is hard and unbending; inside it’s your love language.  You see Jaque, if the Sun shines on rows of garbage in an alley, the stench could be strong enough to drive you out of the alley, but shining on a field of jasmine, the fragrance could consume you with delight.  Same Sun but different conditions; well, I am the same God but I influence hearts according to the condition of those hearts.  Who or what has your heart?  Men’s hearts change, but I never change.  Jaque, the law will never pass away; it’s the description of My goodness.  Yet something has changed in you.  Let Me explain.  The law is a picture of Me—the essence of absolute Truth, and at new birth I relocated Myself in your heart.  You know Me now much differently, because I’ve made the law very personal and intimate to you. 

Whereas the law used to be your archenemy as it stood outside and told you what you needed to do to be accepted by Me, it is now the love language written on your heart.  You didn’t put it there; I did.  I worked the "will to do and to be" inside you when you surrendered your heart to Me.   That’s when I came to live within, no longer as a cold outward instruction but as unconditional love within.  (I do this in every new creation—they only need to BEHOLD it ;)

Jaque, the law is organic to you now.  Here’s what I mean.  You don’t have to "try" to be Jaque Shank so you?  You don’t have to guess what you want for breakfast, do you?  You figure that out pretty easily because you know yourself.  (Jaque, when you know who you are you know what to do because you are "organic" to yourself ;)  And you don’t ever have to "try" to please Me.  You know that I am pleased just being your life!  You can plan your day and accomplish what you want, because you are "personal" to Jaque.  Well, you and I are One.  You seek Me knowing I live within Jaque as Jaque in her Christ form.  You ask whatever you will, fully assured that I (Jaque in her Christ form) will answer you.  Once again; I am organic to you—I am your life.  It’s Jaque, yet NOT Jaque, but Christ living in Jaque as Jaque (Gal. 2:20)   Written on your heart you now enjoy interacting with Me (to life) in bold new ways don’t you? 


Yes Father, I love writing the vision of Christ fulfilled in me (Matthew 5:18) which is the law in its LOVE form or, the law written in its Christ as Jaque form.  Wow!  How cool is this??!!#$%^!@!

Abba, I understand the law shall never pass away, but I thank you (to infinity and beyond) that I am no longer under its CURSE.  I’m no longer an outsider looking in.    The law is no longer antiquated stone tablets but a living legend of love living in me AS me.  This is how I now know the law; inside my pulsating heart revealing my healthy, holy, healing, breathing-His-love-on-me-every-moment God!  And so I shall continue to write the vision of Christ in me and enjoy YOU to the max!

Living 'loved' by keeping myself in His love… Jude 21

9:42 am
March 27, 2010


Georgia

Member

posts 116

Dear Friends,

I took a church history class this week.  We covered 2000 years in 5 nights!  Since I have been thinking about legalism and how it impacts us, it was easy to pick this out in the sweeping overview of how the "church" has behaved throughout the centuries.  It seems whenever God moves in a new way, things are fresh at the time, but then the second generation of the movement comes along and sets up the structure and holds to the doctrines and before long they have the form of what God did, but no life.  I heard of a move of God in Ethiopia in the 1940’s, and 50 years later, they were still moving their hands in a certain way during certain songs because that’s the way it was done before. 

It’s staggering to think of all the evil that has been done in the name of God.  In Matthew 13, Jesus told the parable of the wheat and tares, and said to let the tares stay so as not to disrupt the wheat.  Surely that is what has happened.  And yet, in every generation, God has His people, who truly love Him and are not trying to use Him for power or prestige. These are the shining stars who have made great sacrifices, even their lives, for His sake.  It’s the legalistic ones who want to silence and even kill them.

One thing my instructor said that really struck me:  "You don’t know what you don’t know."  Like in the Dark Ages, people didn’t know that they didn’t know about the means of justification.  But then Martin Luther realized that he didn’t know (or have) the assurance of salvation, and after that came the revelation of the truth of salvation by grace. The truth was revealed and then he knew!  So when we know that we don’t know something, we can seek the revelation of the truth!  Since Jesus is the truth, we can trust him to bring His revelation as we seek Him.

Another thing that stood out to me was the power of God’s word.  In the Dark Ages (again), the "church" could tell people whatever it wanted to, and the people had no way to check these things out to see if they were true.  But then the scriptures were translated into the common languages, and the printing press was invented.  The people could read the Bible to see for themselves, and this ushered in the Reformation!  The light dispels the darkness!

Above all, I am awed by our amazing God, who weaves each life (wheat or tare) into an amazing tapestry for His glory. I wonder how many untold stories there are of courage and sacrifice that were given as offerings to Him!  Let’s press on to that high calling for which we are called!  We are part of His Story!!

In Him,

Georgia

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