Wow, Brandy, that is an amazing articulation of why sin (and anyone holding onto it) would be consumed in God's presence! It makes me think about in the Old Testament, before the sacrifice of Christ, if someone touched something unclean, then they became unclean. But when Jesus touched the unclean woman, she became well! God's holiness consumes all uncleanness!!
I just wanted to share something I found in my Systematic Theology book by Wayne Grudem. On the message for week 3 All-Present, All-Knowing, Jaque read a journal in which God said
If you were to visit hell, I would be there. Hell is what it is because of the effects of my presence on evil.
This sometimes strikes us strange because we are often taught that hell is the absence of God. Wayne Grudem says:
Omnipresence definition: "God does not have size or spatial dimensions and is present at every point of space with his whole being, yet God acts differently in different places."
"The idea of God's omnipresence has sometimes troubled people who wonder how God can be present, for example, in hell. In fact, isn't hell the opposite of God's presence, or the absence of God? This difficulty can be resolved by realizing that God is present in different ways in different places in his creation, or that God acts differently in different places in his creation. Sometimes God is present to punish (Amos 9:1-4), or present to bless (Ps. 16:11) at other times God is present neither to punish nor to bless, but merely present to sustain (as in unbelievers) (also Col 1:17). The vast majority of biblical references to God's presence are simply more brief ways of stating that he is present to bless. When we become familiar with this biblical pattern of speech, it becomes more and more difficult to speak of God's presence in any other way. And perhaps it is even misleading to do so unless a clear explanation of our meaning can be given.*
In summary, God is present in every part of space with his whole being, yet God acts differently in different places. There is nowhere in the entire universe, on land or sea, in heaven or hell, where one can flee from God's presence (Ps139:7-10) Furthermore, when the Bible speaks of God's presence, it usually means his presence to bless, and it is only normal for our own speech patterns to conform to this biblical usage."
Over the two past days of lesson 4, I believe I've gotten a clearer picture of the sinner redeemed. We often say or hear said, "Grace is getting what we don't deserve; Mercy is not getting what we do deserve." This is true and glorious news. When we read 1 John 1:9, "…He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins…"…the word just just jumps out at me.
At the beginning of the lesson, I defined just as: guided by truth, reason; done or made according to principle; equitable; proper; given or awarded/punished rightly; righteousness
In fleshly terms, that seems very contradictory to the scripture. I don't normally equate forgiveness with justice. I think of forgiveness as freedom. If I truly forgive someone who has wronged me (letting it go), it frees me of the hurt and pain the offense caused me in the first place. It seems like a rather selfish gesture, when you think about it defensively. But letting someone off the hook, doesn't seem like justice to me. A mother could forgive the drunk driver who killed her son, but the time served is the justice. Again, I'm speaking in earthly terms.
…but anyway, I'm straying from my original point…
God views forgiveness as just act…justice served. Christ, God's perfect Son, dying on the cross so that I could be forgiven of my sins and removing them from the books as if they never happened…I call this grace & mercy…God calls this justice!!! This boggles my mind. I can feel what Barabbas must have felt that day. God's ways are so much higher than we could possibly relate with.
In Sunday School this past week, the validity of death-bed confessions came up in discussion. The thief on the cross demonstrates that acceptance of Jesus Christ in the last moments is as real as the life-long Christian. …and someone commented about how it doesn't seem fair that this person could enjoya sinful life and reap the same reward that someone who has lived a long godly-life. First and foremost, a Christian with God's will at heart, should rejoice that someone minutes from dying was spared hell! Secondly, I do believe that there is some sort of righteousness scale…the Bible does speak of treasures in heaven. Thirdly, and back on topic, again God calls this just.
At the core of God's goodness is that truest of love and to realize the power of that is amazing…even more so that He chose to give it to a wretch like me! Thank you, Lord!
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you in spirit, brothers & sisters. Amen!
Belinda-Marie
You’ll never know Christ is all you need, until Christ is all you got!
God is present in different ways in different places in his creation, or that God acts differently in different places in his creation.
I think I would re-phrase that to say that man's perspective of God is different in different places. It's like Jacque's analogy in the Lesson 3 audio about the sun shining on a field of flowers or a garbage dump, it's the same sunshine, but very different results. We perceive God according to what's in our hearts. And we know from our studies that God is timeless and unchanging!
In the parable of the talents:
Mt 25:24 "Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you havewhat is yours.’ 26 "But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed….29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
The lazy servant experienced the lord as he perceived him – as being hard, etc.
And as far as God being in hell, what if the very same fire of the glory of God was perceived as torment by someone who refused to come to God for redemption from sin? If they hold on to their sin, then wouldn't they experience the judgement to God? Even as I write this, I feel a holy fear (awe) rise up in me, like I'm trying to know things that are way beyond my human capabilities. I certainly am not the judge!
Heb 12:28 since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29for our "God is a consuming fire."
I wanted to share my journal from Day 4…which took me two days to receive. I was ready to move on to Day 5 this morning, but He wasn't finished. And even after I did finish it, it seems as if He didn't want to move on until I shared this. (I'm going to post in both forums…just to be on the safe side that I am sharing it with the person(s) that He wants to read it.) I'd like to move on to Day 5 and blog sometime this weekend! …Him willing, of course! …Belinda-Marie
Jehovah-Jireh, I AM called. I provide for the minutest of creatures of the earth, as well as to the most spectacular angels on high. Nothing under My hand shall suffer for lack of needs. Rocks cry holy. The jungle wild bow to My authority. To you, I provide the most essential of all…I provide you soul. I provide you spirit. I provide you Me. Sin darkened humanity with pain and suffering. People go hungry, people get sick, people live under bridges. It’s a saddened view to My eyes to see that man chose this for himself. Lest you think that suffering is for the poor or down-trodden, there are countless more that suffer from riches and status. They live a false happiness that in truth deadens their soul to a torment, in which words can never describe. At night, when they lock away their treasures and a secure their wealth, they lie awake at night searching for the one thing they lack…peace. Peace cannot be obtained with dollars. Peace comes at a much higher price. A currency that is finer than silver, more precious than gold. The only currency that is accepted at the door of peace is a precious note of Salvation. You soul’s account must be insured with drops of blood shed from Emmanuel’s veins. When it comes time to reconcile the flesh’s account, you will balance out your books with Mine. If your earthly worth falls short of My glory, and it will, I will look on the book of life and find, stamped in bright crimson, "PAID IN FULL"! I will close your account forever and walk you Myself through those high gates, into an endless vault of glorious and eternal wealth. You will never worry again about not measuring up, because I will have completed you into perfection.
Wow, Father. The way the Spirit tells a story, through me, is amazing. I long for You to be my voice even when I’m not sitting behind a computer. This is what I want people to hear when my lips are moving. I want them to hear You speaking through Me. I want to speak in a way that the heart will understand and be open to hearing more and more, until at last, they too can hear Your voice for themselves. -Thank You Jesus!
You’ll never know Christ is all you need, until Christ is all you got!
Isn't it wonderful to bask in the light of His total goodness? Inspired by all you're sharing here I thought I would post a journal too.
"Expectation of Goodness"
That God is good is taught or implied on every page of the bible and must be received as an article of faith as impregnable as the throne of God. It is the foundation stone of all sound thought about God and is necessary to moral sanity. To allow that God could be other that good is to deny the validity of all thought and end in the negation of every moral judgment. If God is not good, then there can be no distinction between kindness and cruelty, and heaven can be hell and hell heaven. (AW Tozer, Knowledge of the Holy).
As I reread this journal I can’t help but think of the following verse: "He who is holy will see that you are holy; but to the man whose way is not straight you will be a hard judge" 2 Sam 22:27 (BBE) The verses I journalized from were Psalm 145:9, 14-16, Job 38:25-27, 39-41, Matthew 5:45 .
Jaque, all expectation is predicated upon My goodness—the ground of all anticipation. I am good, and I do not force My attention upon you. It’s easy to have you in My thoughts at all times, but if you would know Me you need to direct your focus towards goodness. Also, if you would be welcomed as a Prodigal, you must come as the Prodigal came.
Your attitudes determine how you experience My reception of you.
If you expect goodness you will soon see that I am not slow to give it. But if you expect harshness you will find Me cold and aloof. Your heart determines how you know Me. To the humble heart I am good. In My goodness I show that to live well and be happy means expecting Me in all goodness and favor. It means carrying an uplifting attitude toward Me. My word shows how good I am, even though your attitude can either reject or receive it.
You choose how to know Me Jaque.
If you choose Life you choose Me in goodness but if you choose death you choose dark moods and negative outcomes. Yes, because I am good you can move away from negative states. Choice Jaque. As to how you will know Me is yours to make. This is My gift to you. Choice; the rudder of your ship. Where will your soul sail today? Into seas of goodness or onto seas of tumult? Choose this day how you will serve your Master.
Let goodness open the eyes of your heart so you can serve in the light of My goodness. Then nothing but "goodness" will be your experience—no matter what.
Father, I wholly devote my heart and mind to you. Thank you for choosing me to know goodness and to be utterly delighted by it. I expect you to present Yourself as awesomely good. My attitude toward You is elevated above the clouds. Thank you, thank you, and thank you forevermore. Amen.
Living 'loved' by keeping myself in His love… Jude 21
Jacque, your post reminds me of another scripture:
James 4:6 "But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: " God resists the proud,But gives grace to the humble."
And I love the analogy of our choices being the rudder of a ship.
James 3:4 "Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires. 5 Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things."
So when we choose in our heart, the we speak accordingly, because
"out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." Mt 12:34
Lord, help us be aware of the choices of our hearts and the words that come out of our mouths!
….. to question my goodness is like walking outside with your eyes closed. You do not have to look very far for evidence of my goodness. But more importantly that the evidence is the source of the goodness and my ultimate gift of goodness to you is Christ. Perfect in every way, He has provided you with all the goodness you will need. Emulate this goodness in your life and let it overflow into others. Let your children reflect who I am because they copy that which you display. My goodness is not conditional and does not depend on you. My goodness is around even when you give into your flesh, my goodness is what draws you out of the clutches of your flesh. You are not a slave to it, remember that and live that truth out. Claim it daily and do not for a second forget it. Write it on your walls, your heart, your soul, and meditate on it that it doesn’t just become a thought but a reflex. We are going deeper. Are you ready?
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…Belinda-Marie
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